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#1 2012-10-24 12:02:25

pitiwazou
Member

Schtroumph

Hi,

I'm currently working on a render on guerilla for a schtroumph.
It's a two man job.

I work on the character with Matic.

My render is good, totaly not finish, but it's on the good way. I think ^^

There are lot of ways to use indirect diffuse and Gam show me this way.

Just blend an indirect diffuse with the ambiant.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/a97qK.jpg

That's work's and I have my indirect diffuse on the render. But I have some artefacts and the ID is too strong I think.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/JyjaZ.jpg

Can you show me the best way ton use indirect diffuse on my reyes renders plz ?


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#2 2012-10-24 14:20:41

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Use the microfacet and some arealights.
Then tweak the indirect diffuse directly in comp (guerilla comp or nuke).

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#3 2012-10-24 15:15:32

Ben
Guerilla dev, the guy to hug

Re: Schtroumph

Anything wrong with that kind of shader?

http://www.guerillarender.com/images/simple.jpg

The Microfacet node is a general purpose global illumination shader. It is meant to include a diffuse and a specular when in Diffuse mode.
Note that when talking about diffuse and specular, it integrates the direct AND indirect diffuse, and the direct specular AND the reflections. So, from that point, there is no real need for old school indirect diffuse and blah blah. Let it do the work for you!

It also includes an ambient term if you want to lighten your image, but setting up your ambient light is your duty, then. But remember that the ambient term is just a fake indirect diffuse, so there is no real need for an additional ambient term but just for the sake of complicating stuff smile

Ben


Benjamin 'Ben' Legros
Guerilla developer
http://www.guerillarender.com

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#4 2012-10-24 15:44:19

Gam
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Yes Ben
It is too easy ah ah ah

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#5 2012-10-24 20:27:20

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

The new microfacet let you add a velvet effect .
I would not recommend at all to use the oldschool method of doing shader.
Because:

-The microfacet benefit from MIS (multiple importance sampling) ,it means faster.
-The microfacet is energy conservative,per samples attenuation.
-The old school indirect diffusion doesn't care about the surface BRDF,(no energy conservation there)

90 percent of the marterials can be done with the microfacet .Don't complicate your life.
By the way the shader work properly in Raytrace and REYES

Last edited by pixo (2012-10-24 20:29:32)

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#6 2012-10-24 20:30:54

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

By the way Ben , you should really rename Albedo to Color.I know that the scientific name but for the sake of noobs.

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#7 2012-10-24 23:22:17

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Yep, vous avez raison, le microfacet fonctionne bien mieux c'est sur !

C'est par contre bien plus long Ă  rendre sad

J'ai quand mĂŞme quelques trucs space comme vous pouvez le voir sur le screen.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/uY3UP.jpg

Là j'ai utilisé le skin shader pour le corps.

La scène se compose d'un environnement et d'une area light, le tout en reyes.
Vu le temps que ça prend, je pourrais passer en raytrace ^^

J'ai donc un shader de base avec microfacet pour chaque éléments.
Du displace avec udimtexture vu que j'ai plusieurs uv tiles sur le chapeau, le corps et le pantalon.
Ça fonctionne bien, mais en raytrace, je vois les seams des maps et même avec le width à 0, je les voit.
En reyes, les seams n'apparaissent pas.

J'ai pas vraiment pris le temps d'apprendre Ă  utiliser le microfacet.
C'est assez simple, mais si on veut faire joujou à l’ancienne, là j'avoue ne pas savoir comment m'y prendre.

Pour le corps, j'ai donc une map de bump, mais si je met une valeur supérieure à 1, j'ai des truc bizarre.
Le specu, je le colle dans Roughness ?

Pour les yeux par exemple, j'ai un ramp qui me sert pour la transparence et pour voir l'iris en dessous avec de la refraction.
Ce ramp, je le plug comment ? Car si je le met après en multiply, ça ne fonctionne pas.
Si je le colle dans l'opacité du l'output, j'ai bien la transparence, mais pas la reflexion de ma cornée par rapport à mon environnement.

En gros, il me manque le workflow pour faire des shaders comme je veux, là j'ai l'impression d'être ultra limité sad
Pour ça que j'étais parti sur les ancien shaders ou je peux faire absolument ce que je veux même si ce n'est pas accurate comme on dit ^^


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CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#8 2012-10-24 23:51:13

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/6G700.jpg

Comme vous pouvez le voir, si j'ajoute du bump Ă  0.15, j'ai des trucs bizarre sur le contour des yeux.
Pareil pour le bleu dans les plis du chapeau et l'intérieur des lèvre qui parait éclairé.

Mon mesh est fermé pour le SSS.


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http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#9 2012-10-25 11:43:20

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Which Guerilla version?
Do you have some displace ?
What's the result without bump ?
Did you play with the rayoffset ?
Which bump offset?

Last edited by pixo (2012-10-25 11:46:07)

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#10 2012-10-25 12:15:30

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

#Which Guerilla version?
- Guerilla 0.14.12

#Do you have some displace ?
- Yes like I said, displace in the main character with a udimtextures who work's fine.

#What's the result without bump ?

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/q7sen.jpg

#Did you play with the rayoffset ?
-No

#Which bump offset?
0.15


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CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#11 2012-10-25 12:38:06

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Your bump offset value is the same as your bump .
Try 0.075 as bump offset, a good dumb rule is to set your bump offset as bump divided by 2.
Under Raytracing:
Try to tick "On" the Displacement  ,
Set Subdivision level to 2
Play with the rayoffset at the end if the previous stuff didn't manage to remove every problems.

Last edited by pixo (2012-10-25 15:39:18)

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#12 2012-10-25 12:47:00

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

I'll try that, thx wink

Last edited by pitiwazou (2012-10-25 12:47:10)


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#13 2012-10-26 11:44:03

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

If it doesn't work just try to set to 2 sided everything.There's is a bug with the shadow.

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#14 2012-10-26 15:35:27

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Ok, it's mutch better, thx a lot pixo wink

I'm now in raytrace and it's really fast in fact, it's good !

I have some weird results on my render.

I use a skin shader.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/YiLlz.jpg

I have weird dots on the render.
I don't know if it's made by the ray filter. by defaut at "no caustics"

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/1oz4L.jpg

Also, as you can see on my rendu, I have a blanc line on the hat because the indirect sampling.
If I disable the IS, I don't have this line.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/M2eh8.jpg

Another weird stuff, I don't know how to plug a specular map !
I think it's on the roughness input, but I a a weird result as you can see on my test.

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/ztF4Q.jpg


The member to blame ! ^^
CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#15 2012-10-26 16:31:42

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Pure black in the roughness may be, use clamp or setrange to avoid a pure 0 roughness.
If it's not that send the scene .

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#16 2012-10-26 16:46:54

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

add this to the line 74
of your microfacet shader :

    // blinn & beckmann precompute
    Roughness=max(0.001,Roughness);

Or just add a "max" node between your map and you roughness ,plug your map in and set 0.001 the other value.

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#17 2012-10-26 17:24:54

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

For the microfacet the last tweak is still good.
But for the "skin" shader it looks like the "g_specular" function from the "Input" node have something wrong.

Copy paste these lines at the and of the "skin>Skin>Input" node.
The Input node is the one connected to the SSS node.

DirectSpecular=max(DirectSpecular,color(0));
EnvSpecular=max(EnvSpecular,color(0));
IndirectSpecular=max(IndirectSpecular,color(0));

Last edited by pixo (2012-10-26 17:38:01)

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#18 2012-10-26 18:16:22

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

It's good for the roughness, thx you again !

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/0NexF.jpg

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/uT8E.jpg

Last edited by pitiwazou (2012-10-26 18:36:16)


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http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#19 2012-10-26 18:43:24

stringer
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Nice! Glad to see you back on the forum smile


Guillaume 'Stringer' Potier
Guerilla developer
http://www.mercs-eng.com

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#20 2012-10-26 18:47:22

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Quelques temps sans faire de Guerilla, tu vas regretter que je m'y remette ^^


The member to blame ! ^^
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http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#21 2012-10-26 19:16:15

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

So, it's work on the skin too !

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/RjIvV.jpg

I still have my problem on the hat, it's weird !

Last edited by pitiwazou (2012-10-26 19:17:38)


The member to blame ! ^^
CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#22 2012-10-26 19:40:50

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Cool ! smile
For the other bug i don't really see it in the last render.
It's still there ?

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#23 2012-10-26 19:45:13

pixo
Member

Re: Schtroumph

how many bounces do you have ?don't hesitate to increase it, now it's so fast ahahah
By the way make it a like bit more waxy, the model look really hard.

Last edited by pixo (2012-10-26 19:47:16)

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#24 2012-10-26 23:39:17

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Increase the bounces fix my problem !

thx again pixo, that's work fine and it's fast !

Just need to anderstand how guerilla works anymore and it's great in fact !

Now, with my pb fixed, I need to know how to play with the shaders, rendergraph etc !
That ill be hard, but, that will be good ! ^^

Last edited by pitiwazou (2012-10-26 23:39:52)


The member to blame ! ^^
CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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#25 2012-10-27 01:32:27

pitiwazou
Member

Re: Schtroumph

Rapid render !

http://uppix.3dvf.com/images/TE8bR.jpg

Maintenant que j'ai capté comment bosser sans bug, y a plus qu'à !


The member to blame ! ^^
CĂ©dric Lepiller, Freelance 3D
http://www.pitiwazou.com/

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